scott:  sounds like looser talk. 2 years ago

uub:  surviving is really hard, and civilization has made it way easier. but the price is that you just have to participate in the economy now 2 years ago

uub:  I don't think so. imagine life before there was civilization or infrastructure. you'd just have to be hunting all the time so your tribe wouldn't starve to death. and you'd have to be ever-ready to fight, otherwise your friends and family would get ripped apart by wild animals. 2 years ago

Connor:  On that note, Is it crazy to think that this whole system of work most of life, take little vacations, and barely do what you really wanna do, is fucked up? 2 years ago

uub:  but on the other hand, maybe it's that lack of balance that allows them to succeed big in the first place 2 years ago

uub:  maybe this gets back to your first point, @chris, the idea that men aren't encouraged to know about their emotions, particularly the response to this idea that you have to succeed big to be valuable or happy. maybe that's the real problem. like, if we solved that, and had men be more emotionally transparent, then also encouraging them to succeed big wouldn't be quite as harmful... because they'd be more balanced 2 years ago

uub:  interesting points, but I still think it's not a bad thing to have this social pressure to over-perform, as it were. it pushes people to succeed where they wouldn't have otherwise. 2 years ago

Brent:  true @chris, "luck" plays a big factor in many people's success "right place - right time" however I subscribe to the thought that we make our own luck... that we put ourselves in positions to get lucky. 2 years ago

chris:  yeah! we need ditch-diggers too ;] 2 years ago

Connor:  very true, the "regular guys" help make this world function, without them we would be lost. They work agriculture making it possible for us to eat. They pick up our trash, so that we don't have to live in filth. 2 years ago

chris:  another thing that occurs to me, @uub , is that men's success in building empires isn't just dependent on their personal performance. there are a lot of random factors too. just because you try really hard and do all the right things doesn't mean you'll succeed. the rain falls on the workaholics and 9-to-5'ers alike 2 years ago

Brent:  great points, both of you @uub and @chris 2 years ago

EugeneBelford gave props 2 years ago

chris:  that's a harsh view. plus, the world needs regular guys too. not everyone should be a super-ceo 2 years ago

uub:  perhaps we don't want them in the gene pool. what if the costs are appropriate punishment for them not being able to perform? 2 years ago

chris:  maybe... but what about the cost that the author mentions--the emotional repression, the suicides? 2 years ago

uub:  maybe this is ok, though--women being beautiful doesn't add nearly as much benefit to the world as men creating billion-dollar companies 2 years ago

chris:  we also actively discourage men from feeling 2 years ago